Very many thanks for those excellent images of 488 on progress report page for July 2015. They really are doing a magnificent job at Boston Lodge and they are to be commended for the high quality of the work.
Ian Stewart, author of 'The Glasgow Tramcar' is equally enthusiastic about the work. One small point he has asked to pass on is
THE WORK AND FINISH LOOK GREAT. THE STAIRCASE IS OK BUT THE INSIDE OF THE DASH SHOULD NOT BE MAROON. IT SHOULD BE KHAKI [GCT DESCRIPTION] BUT CLOSE TO OPORTO 273'S OCHRE COLOUR.
We were chatting on the phone recently and he mentioned that he was frequently in Coplawhill Car Works when Glasgow 22 was being rebuilt back to its present state, and the men working on it showed him the dash paint which they described as Khaki, the official GCT description, but as Ian mentions above, is actually nearer to Oporto 273's ochre. Also, if you check the dashes of all the Glasgow cars at Crich, including the Kilmarnock Bogie, 1115, you will see that it isn't actually maroon, but more of an ochre.
Anyway, that aside, I really look forward to the finished job when both decks are reunited and 488 will probably be the best preserved tram in the UK. Really great work.
13 May 2015: "Derrick Plyer" <derrick.plyer@sky.com>
Having just read your latest report on progress with 488 with interest, I noted that you were contemplating the re-gauging issue. From the photo of the truck it wasn't possible to determine if the wheels are solid or of the tyred variety.
Many years ago at EATM we had Glasgow 1245 which naturally had the same gauging problem. The project leader at that time was Keith Pattern and he came up with an innovative solution after local attempts to move a wheel on an axle had proved too much for the hydraulic gear available. Keith's solution was to construct a ring of propane gas fired burners under a wheel set suspended from an 'A' frame by a chain operated winch.
The tyre was heated evenly and expanded enough to be freed by a few strategic hammer taps and inching the axle upwards. A pre-rolled steel ring was then inserted between the tyre and wheel centre and the axle lowered back into position and then dowsed with water. The ring was of course ½ the required thickness of the gauge difference and was then repeated on the opposite wheel.
Keith, like myself hasn't been a regular for some years at the museum and lives in Canvey Island, I have his telephone number and, if you feel it would be worth pursuing at least talking it over with him then please ask.
23 February 2015"Fraser Guild" <Fraser.Guild@realtyinsurances.co.uk>
Just in case no one else has spotted it - the location of picture 8 in the Memory Lane section is Hayston Street in Ruchill looking approximately north towards the junction with Balmore Road.
The old picture house seen behind 488 can also be seen in the modern view above. The detail in the front wall at the roof ridge behind the bow is unmistakable. My best friend lived in these flats round the corner in Bilsland Drive.
Thanks for the memories - all the best with the project.
1 April 2014: "Thomas Armstrong" <thomasarmstrong73@ntlworld.com>
I'm pleased to have found your web site; I am 73 years old and well remember the trams of Glasgow. I am a keen enthusiast of these trams and did try to obtain the wire connections that carried the power to the trams but to no avail as they knocked the buildings down and the connection brackets were lost.
I have an album of all the numbers of them and their destinations. When I was wee, my brothers and I used to go upstairs and change the destination blind. Reaching Argyle Street, people had to ask if the tram went to their destination. The clippie soon realised we had changed the destination it was supposed to be going to.
We lived in Dumbarton Road, Whiteinch, and used to go to my grannies house at Auchenshuggle. We often chased the No.17 to Primrose Street, Whiteinch, and whoever got there first, changed the line with the poker and got a free chance to drive the tram, I usually won and that tram is now in the Matlock tram museum.
I bought some working models at Matlock but my house was broken into and the trams, together with a few other items, were stolen. I have been unable to find replacement working models since, so if you can help me in this quest, I would be very grateful. I now have two small trams in my display cabinet, but they are only matchbox replicas. I would really like to have a wee layout.
Glasgow should have kept some of their trams and used them like Matlock [a working touring project].
24 May 2013: "Jim Stevensonn" <jim.stevensonn@hotmail.com>
Only just found the site. I'm trying to model Glasgow trams in 00 gauge and need some info on various bits and pieces and your photo section has already been of great help. I'll look forward to visiting 488 when she arrives at Carlton Colville. Please keep us informed of the date.
20 May 2013: "Dave Menzies" <dave.menzies@tiscali.co.uk>
I read the article on the 10B tram route with nostalgia as I used it a lot. I lived at Newsham Park. My Aunt gave me this old card which she had picked up years ago as she worked for the Corporation too. She is now deceased. I unearthed this picture and it may be of interest. If you have a contact with the Merseyside Museum guys, I could send them it too.
19 May 2013: "Ralph Smith" <r.smith100@tiscali.co.uk>
I write a page for the Bournemouth based Wessex Transport Society's by monthly colour magazine, called the Light Rail Scene. In the next issue due out in July, I have put together the history and present situation with Glasgow 488, the only missing part is a picture, perhaps showing the two halves side by side in the UK. If you are able to email a picture, it will be much appreciated, I will of course caption as requested. [Ed.: Delighted to supply same].
17 May 2013: "Nigel Pennick"
It is so common to see pictures of trams that have been preserved in museums, supposedly to be kept in good condition [not even needing maintenance as they are not operational], actually falling into serious states of disrepair, like the Feltham in the US and now this Glasgow standard. The magnificent condition of trams preserved in operational condition is a notable contrast with this sorry specimen. Once it is restored again, let us hope it remains so.
15 May 2013: "Alasdair Turnbull" <alasdair.trams@gmail.com>
Reading Ray Maidstone's report on 488, I was rather dismayed that he feels that the quality of some of the work done on the car at Coplawhill before it was transported to Paris left a lot to be desired.
I'd always thought that the people at Coplawhill took great pride in any work they did and suspect that, if shortcuts were taken, it was because of restraints laid down by management rather than poor workmanship by the staff, most of whom were highly skilled and devoted to their work. Anyway, she's in good hands!
14 May 2013: "Martin Jenkins" <martinjenkins2@tiscali.co.uk>
Delighted with all the input into 488 and looking forward to hopefully riding on it at CC. Best wishes for the future of the project.
13 May 2013: "Alasdair MacCaluim" <staran@tesco.net>
Please feel free to use any of my pictures for this project. I didn't know about the restoration of 488 - great news.
13 May 2013: "James Waddell" <jasdell@btinternet.com>
I was interested to read your story re round dash, Standard Tram 488. As I drove trams from 1958 to 1961 in Glasgow it is more than likely that I actually drove this tram on service. I'm sure this tram was at Partick depot. I hope the restoration will go well and I would hope to visit the Tram Museum in Lowestoft when 488 arrives there.
30 April 2013: "Neil Marshall" <neil.marshall@transporttrust.com>
I am a child of the tram system, growing up in Sunderland and Newcastle in the 50’s, as well as a fan of the EATM, so it’s wonderful to see progress with the project.
21 April 2013: "Dave Menzies" <dave.menzies@tiscali.co.uk>
Nice to see Hugh Taylor is still going strong. Quite by a fluke as I was on a ship in dry dock at Govern, I saw 488 in service.
14 April 2013: "Bob Lennox" <boblennox54@gmail.com>
Congratulations on your excellent and informative website declaring and describing the good news of 488's repatriation.
It is not every day a British double decker is returned to its native country. Your story is heart-warming. Mechanically the car should be pretty sound, as it hasn't done much running since its last overhaul, and the Ffestiniog have a good reputation for their craftsmanship if the body needs any attention after its long stints in various French museums. I look forward to reading about its progress.
I don't have much to contribute, but I have some sound recordings of the car running in Glasgow, which you can have for your blog if you are interested. [Webmaster: Yes please!]
12 April 2013: "Rob Candlish" <robcandlish@rocketmail.com>
Indeed far too little of our tramway heritage has survived. The Tramway Museum Society are doing their best to rectify this though and anyone's welcome to join us.
12 April 2013: "Mike O'Hara" <mikeohbn1@yahoo.co.uk>
This looks like good news. Far too little of our tram heritage has survived - makes you wonder just what the Paris museum planned for it. After all, they didn't keep much of their old system, did they!
8 April 2013: "Alasdair Turnbull" <alasdair.trams@gmail.com>
I just loved the trams in Glasgow from a very early age till they finally disappeared in 1962 when I was in my 16th year. I am really delighted that you have retrieved this tram from possible extinction and that you will be restoring her to working order. I travelled several times on 488, remembering especially an exhilarating ride back from Baillieston on the last day of service 15, in which I met enthusiast Ian Stewart for the first time.
I have one or two photos of my own of her, not breathtaking but which I will make available when I have mastered the technology! I do have a special request. I am working on a 2nd book of colour photos of Glasgow trams and would very much like to include, if possible, photos P2, P3 & P7 from your gallery. Please let me know how they should be credited, eg to the individual photographer, the 488 Preservation Group or whatever. In the captions, I will give a short update based on information from your website. Please may I have permission to include them. In the meantime, thank you and may your project be successful.
Postscript correction: It wasn't the last day of service 15 on which I made that journey on 488 but very soon after she was pressed back into service following the Dalmarnock Depot fire on 22 March 1961.
8 April 2013: "Bob [Birkenhead Tramway]" <pancratios@btinternet.com>
When 730 left Birkenhead it was fitted with a skate. We don't use wheels here. Unless somebody's fiddling around. Video of event.
8 April 2013: "Mal Rowe" <mal.rowe@gmail.com>
Beamish can now expect a period of excessive wear on their carbon inserts. Trolley wheels arc continuously and produce tiny 'dags' on the trolley wire. Those 'dags' cut through carbon skids like a file. It's not good to mix wheels and skids. Mal Rowe in Melbourne, where the MMTB learnt that lesson the hard way.
8 April 2013: "George Reywer" <george-reywer@tiscali.co.uk>
The design of the Beamish overhead means that trams cannot use pantographs or bow collectors. All the Beamish based trams use carbon insert swivel head trolley pole collectors, however the visiting trams last weekend [Glasgow 1068 and Lisbon 730] had trolley wheels on their poles. Crich can use all types of collectors.
8 April 2013: "Simon Smiler" <simon@garden.f9.co.uk>
Perhaps Crich or Beamish would be better suited to bow power collectors, as Crich won't have trolleybus wiring and Beamish can [I think] already use pantograph trams.
5 April 2013: "STTS" <stts.glasgow@virgin.net>
As you may well imagine, the members of STTS have been delighted at the news concerning Standard 488 and are grateful to the estate of the late Peter Mitchell for providing the funds for its restoration to full working order. I understand from Terry Russell that it will be restored to 'as withdrawn' condition and fitted with a trolley pole, which is perfectly understandable, given the overhead wiring configuration at Carlton Colville.
4 April 2013: "Hugh Taylor" <isleworthdepot@trolleybus.net>
A contract is being made between the executors of Peter Mitchell and the Ffestiniog Railway Company with enough funds available, from Peter Mitchell's bequest, for complete professional restoration of 488. I respect the enthusiasm of people offering voluntary services with this project, but the Works Manager of the Ffestiniog Railway will use such help under strict supervision which maybe no more than cleaning down. The car will be restored in the colour scheme and physical style that we all remember at system closure.
4 April 2013: "George Brown" <brown@georgeabrown11.fsnet.co.uk>
As an ex Glasgow resident who travelled on these cars and is now living in North Wales, and is willing to do work on this car at Boston Lodge on a voluntary basis, I would urge caution about doing major modifications to the car as it stands. Apart from the cost I would like to see it restored as I remember them, a bit more than an 'oily rag' job but with minimal changes - after all these cars were subject to continuous alterations and to take it back in time would always be a compromise.
I hope that we do not become all tied up in arguments about this - let's get on with it!
4 April 2013: "Terry Russell" <terry@terryrusselltrams.co.uk>
I see someone wants to cannibalise 488 into something we do not remember or actually have in a museum! 488 as was on the last day of operation please. And if the bow can be retained, so much the better.
3 April 2013: "Brent Higham" <brent.higham@o2.co.uk>
It is excellent news that 488 has been repatriated. It could be restored as a phase 3 standard similar to 22. This would give EATM the opportunity to display/run a balcony car instead of another totally enclosed car, could be correctly painted in the green route colour which is the only colour not represented on a preserved tram and would also be the only round dash phase 3 car. I recognise that the seating on both decks would need to be changed and air brakes removed etc. Boston Lodge could readily do the work.
2 April 2013: "David Bradley" <david@mideng.co.uk>
Ken Thorpe and I arranged a farewell tour of the Glasgow system for the day of closure, transporting 160 enthusiasts from the London area in three coaches. Two trams were hired and every bit of the system then open was covered, including parts that had not seen a tram for a number of years. Had I had known then the significance, and availability of 488, then of course that would have been the tram that we would have attempted to hire.
2 April 2013: "Keith Farrow" <k.p.farrow@btopenworld.com>
The overhead is very complicated, given the small scale of the site, at Carlton Colville so bow collection would be a challenge; not impossible, but difficult.
1 April 2013: "Terry Russell" <terry@terryrusselltrams.co.uk>
I want to see it stay as it is - as I rode and remember them in bus green.
31 March 2013: "Ian Stewart" <stewart.ian9@sky.com>
I was delighted to hear about 488. I understand that, for operational reasons, it will not be possible to fit a bow collector to the car at Lowestoft. This effectively dictates the livery style. It should be a cross between 22 and 812. 488 is actually the only surviving genuine white car. The livery detailing is a minefield and easy to get wrong. Through the STTS, I have offered to help with this and could provide a detailed specification if/when wanted.
31 March 2013: "John Prentice" <john.prentice@tramwayinfo.com>
When I last saw this car in Paris about 20 years ago it was in very poor condition, with lots of splitting in the woodwork, so heaven knows what it is like now. Probably much worse. I was also appalled at how the trolleybus 796 had deteriorated over the last 20 years when I saw that at EATM last year.
26 March 2013: "Thierry ASSA" <th-assa@wanadoo.fr>
A great success! I'm glad 488 is back to UK; we can be proud of this event. I hope sincerely she could run again and to see this renewal.
26 March 2013: "Thomas Mann" <thomas_mann@mac.com>
Superb website! I didn't know that 488 had come back to the UK. I remember her well as one of the survivors of the depot fire. I'm attaching picture you may like. [Thank you, added to the Picture Gallery].
21 March 2013: "Martin Jenkins" <martinjenkins2@tiscali.co.uk>
I do remember vividly the final day of the 18/18A when this immaculate standard - no loose joints or creaking frame - really showed her paces. Brilliant that we shall soon be able to ride on her again. Congrats to all involved.
21 March 2013: "George Brown" <brown@georgeabrown11.fsnet.co.uk>
I grew up in Glasgow and travelled regularly on the trams in my childhood. I know a fair bit about these 'caurs' which were rebuilt and modified a lot during their long lives. I never expected to see one sitting in Minffordd yard and look forward to this project progressing very much.
17 March 2013: "Colin Smith" <colin.smith3560@ntlworld.com>
I'm viewing the site, at the present time, using the latest version of Safari on an iPad, with no problems. It is a good site, by the way. I look forward to it developing.
9 March 2013: "David Jordan" <ziu682@tiscali.co.uk>
Huge congratulations for getting it back from Paris. A significant achievement and one that I understand has made EATMS the envy of the tramway world already! On behalf of the committee, thank you for all your hard work and your tireless determination in making this long held dream a reality.